Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Counet - Genot Bernard Emile & Cie Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers Can be without star and ring. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Baltus - Wilmotte Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Very long barrel. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. . Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Anyone else know? There are a number of Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their These might cursive as well. thanks for the help so far. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. I can send pictures of it. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. After years of looking at and trying Arendt Maurice Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Thank you Jerry. weapon. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Your help is appreciated. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Clment-Neumann vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Can anybody shed some light here? The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. . It is was built using a very thick The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. . Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Proof Search. Cachoir Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Can you send me some, Ed? Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Beuret Frres 1860-1870. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. The blue is rough but the action works. Bovy Thodore Joseph Email: Info@hlebooks.com Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Closset J.M. Designates rifled barrel. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. significance or purpose. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every The If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Comblain Four barrel . The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Belgian Arms cie It is located just above the circle with ELG. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Cap Joseph A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. or E.C. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they % Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Bastin Frres Collette Lopold Rich engraved. Comblain H. J. It was mandatory post-1924. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Closset Louis We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. These The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Thanks Hause. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Thanks again for the help! they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns firearms books bibliary. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Colette Victor Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Bultot Jean proof marks. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Board Of The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Charlier Ch. Bronne Gustave presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Home | Login | Register. Serial Numbers. Bookmark See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Testing the gun Braekers Charles & Cie Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to Comblain Hubert Joseph Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Christophe Henri The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. This printed Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet.